Tue, 25 August 2009  Production: Zooted Granny Cast: Luke Smith N'Gai Croal Shawn Elliott Music credits:intro: Joe Beats "Bounce" outro: Joe Beats"Wanderer's Lust" Comments[84] |
Regarding Orson Scott Card's involvement in Shadow Complex. Googling OSC and "Empire" tells you that the novels are alternative history stories (set in 2008 or so) about a second American civil war. AFAIK OSC's work is used as a background story and setting to Shadow Complex, but he didn't have any involvement in the specific story of the game.
So pretty much everything said during the podcast about this is irrelevant (ie, it actually is a "developer made story"). And you missed the opportunity to discuss using an established setting in a game to create a richer experience (for the players who know the setting).
I really enjoy the show and have a lot of respect for you guys. But it's kind of annoying to listen to you talk about something irrelevant which could have been avoided with 30 seconds of Googling. (Or just reading the game's Wikipedia entry.)
It's one of the things I appreciate that eg Listen Up does nowadays. They have a laptop in the studio and if they go off track for a while or have a dispute they take a break and look it up.
Keep up the good work, just try to rekindle the journalism flame in your hearts. ;-)
So pretty much everything said during the podcast about this is irrelevant (ie, it actually is a "developer made story"). And you missed the opportunity to discuss using an established setting in a game to create a richer experience (for the players who know the setting).
I really enjoy the show and have a lot of respect for you guys. But it's kind of annoying to listen to you talk about something irrelevant which could have been avoided with 30 seconds of Googling. (Or just reading the game's Wikipedia entry.)
It's one of the things I appreciate that eg Listen Up does nowadays. They have a laptop in the studio and if they go off track for a while or have a dispute they take a break and look it up.
Keep up the good work, just try to rekindle the journalism flame in your hearts. ;-)
As crazy as Orson is at this point, I don't think even he would want his name on this crap (Shadow Complex) story. Whoever wrote it can barely string a thought together, and needs to retake that creative writing 101 course that they audited 6 years ago.
Near the beginning there is a point where the main character is watching his girl friend being interrogated, and getting punched in the fucking face, and his response is to whimper "no..."
Don't forget that this guy, who has been training his whole life to be a paramilitary bad ass, decides only at the end that he never wants to fight. It never occured to him during all the time when he was being trained to kill that he might not want to.
Sad.
Near the beginning there is a point where the main character is watching his girl friend being interrogated, and getting punched in the fucking face, and his response is to whimper "no..."
Don't forget that this guy, who has been training his whole life to be a paramilitary bad ass, decides only at the end that he never wants to fight. It never occured to him during all the time when he was being trained to kill that he might not want to.
Sad.
I thought it was an entertaining episode. I could have done with less in-depth Avatar talk, but that's mostly because I avoid trailers/spoilers for movies I plan to see. All in all, they made me less interested in seeing it, so I guess N'gai and Shawn saved me money.
Luke's inability to commit to for the full length of a podcast makes we wonder why he gets invited back. Maybe some alternate guests would help to broaden the conversation when there aren't many regulars available. His silly voices did make me smile, though.
Robert's ALWW is getting picked up by EGM? That could go well for him. I hope that doesn't mark the end of his Out of the Game appearances.
Luke's inability to commit to for the full length of a podcast makes we wonder why he gets invited back. Maybe some alternate guests would help to broaden the conversation when there aren't many regulars available. His silly voices did make me smile, though.
Robert's ALWW is getting picked up by EGM? That could go well for him. I hope that doesn't mark the end of his Out of the Game appearances.
This should be Luke's final podcast. If he can't be bothered to stay through the whole podcast then he shouldn't be on it in the first place. He adds very little to the show. His presence will not be missed.
posted by: Robby Wales on Wed, 8/26 02:16 PM EDT
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posted by: P.G. Holyfield on Wed, 8/26 07:16 PM EDT
One reason I have trouble getting behind a boycott of Shadow Complex is the fact that I don't think I have enough information about it. It is assumed that Card is getting royalties from the game's profits, in fact it would be surprising if he wasn't, but no one besides the involved parties even know the details on that. We don't know how much money he actually is making. We don't know what he is going to spend that money on. Sure he might spend it on anti-gay marriage, but maybe he's just going to pay bills or do whatever else a normal person does with money. The idea that buying Shadow Complex is equivalent to supporting homophobic agendas just doesn't seem convincing to me. That's not to say that it can't be true, but the boycott appears to be only based on suspicious rather than facts.
Peter David's position on the boycott idea might also have something to do with him being involved in the making of the game.
Specifically, if the game doesn't sell as much, he doesn't get as much royalty money.
Always look for the money.
So shadow complex doesn't much put it's politicals in the game, but does fund them, and that isn't too bad.
If RE5 had just white guys shooting white guys once more, but some small fraction of the percentage of the money made for the KKK, then that would've been better too?
Specifically, if the game doesn't sell as much, he doesn't get as much royalty money.
Always look for the money.
So shadow complex doesn't much put it's politicals in the game, but does fund them, and that isn't too bad.
If RE5 had just white guys shooting white guys once more, but some small fraction of the percentage of the money made for the KKK, then that would've been better too?
I am pretty sure someone woke Luke up for the show and he was caught off guard. He might have been caught without his roasted almonds to start the day and ended up being grouchy and uninvolved.
I think you guys did as best you could with a skeleton crew; however, I look forward to the full cast. Hero of the web is not required if interesting well informed discussion is available.
I think you guys did as best you could with a skeleton crew; however, I look forward to the full cast. Hero of the web is not required if interesting well informed discussion is available.
I think the idea behind a boycott is not so clear cut Peter David percieves it and that it is contextual and relative. In this particular instance, the mentality behind the boycott is not necessarily "I don't agree with you so I'll hurt you financially", but "If I aid you financially by buying this game, you can turn around and use it to fund something that hurts me, my mate, my friends, and potentially their mates." It's a defense mechanism used to stem a percieved threat to the freedom that the gays should be afforded. Perhaps they are hurting Orson Scott financially by boycotting the game, but with those finances, Orson Scott could potentially promote an agenda that uses it's own finances to hurt those same people by denying them their freedom.
On a side note, however (and this is where it's tricky), Orson Scott isn't the only one hurt, but the developers as well.
On a side note, however (and this is where it's tricky), Orson Scott isn't the only one hurt, but the developers as well.
I'm disappointed in Luke Smith. Do you know how many fans you guys have that would LOVE to be on the show sometime? He's not even there most of the time and when he is, he can't be bothered to stick around for the whole thing. That's just too bad. Its like his most entertaining days are behind him or something.
N'Gai, I love you man, but you gotta try to talk in more of a "group" minded fashion. You just go on and on sometimes and there's no window for your friends to jump in. Work on that, bro!
Shawn, you're the reason I listen. Well, you, Jeff, and Robert. What's missing though is the stories, the everyday life kinda bullshit that gave GFW so much life. Jeff told his story a few episodes back about putting out the couch on fire, but there hasn't been much like that since then.
"Attention Safeway Employess, HUDDLE UP! TIME TO HUDDLE UP!" Remember that one? That's the kinda thing thats missing from Out of the Game. There's a lot of great conversation and analysis, but the "Why so low?" kinda shit is in short supply.
Anyway, I'm glad the show is there when it is, short-staffed or not, so at least know that. I really appreciate that its there and you guys have a forum to keep podcasting. However, if Luke Smith doesn't want to be on the show anymore, I'll gladly take his place. For reals.
-Andrew
Co-Founder of Moofpack.com
N'Gai, I love you man, but you gotta try to talk in more of a "group" minded fashion. You just go on and on sometimes and there's no window for your friends to jump in. Work on that, bro!
Shawn, you're the reason I listen. Well, you, Jeff, and Robert. What's missing though is the stories, the everyday life kinda bullshit that gave GFW so much life. Jeff told his story a few episodes back about putting out the couch on fire, but there hasn't been much like that since then.
"Attention Safeway Employess, HUDDLE UP! TIME TO HUDDLE UP!" Remember that one? That's the kinda thing thats missing from Out of the Game. There's a lot of great conversation and analysis, but the "Why so low?" kinda shit is in short supply.
Anyway, I'm glad the show is there when it is, short-staffed or not, so at least know that. I really appreciate that its there and you guys have a forum to keep podcasting. However, if Luke Smith doesn't want to be on the show anymore, I'll gladly take his place. For reals.
-Andrew
Co-Founder of Moofpack.com
posted by: Andrew- Host of The Moofcast on Sat, 8/29 09:49 AM EDT
I love Shawn's elaborated talks, but it was a pain in the ass listen to him when he said so much about the (Shadow Complex) story, while he didn't even go further than kidnapping the girl. Seriously, it is not the greatest fable ever told but it ties all the ends and is enjoyable. Nevertheless the gameplay's what's matter, and the rest is just a pleasant addon. I hope that all you guy finish the game and get back to it for a few minutes.
Love your show but since ngai can't figure it out himself can someone please tone down ngai a bit? He constantly rambles and talks over or interrupts the other hosts constantly to the detriment of the show. The was at leAst 3 separate times in the last show that he cutoff Luke. Please chill a bit ngai
Hey guys, about my verbosity... it's all about you know, you know? You know. You know, you know.
You know.
You know? You know! You know, like, ummmmmm. You know.
You know.
You know? You know! You know, like, ummmmmm. You know.
posted by: N'Gai on Tue, 9/1 12:30 PM EDT
And a final point: Ummmmm, it's like, when I wrote for Newsweek, you know, being a minor celebrity, you know, I'm black BTW and a micro celebrity, like, ummm.
You know.
(read in droning stretched out tones like an out-of-closet Vin Diesel)
You know.
(read in droning stretched out tones like an out-of-closet Vin Diesel)
posted by: N'Gai on Tue, 9/1 12:33 PM EDT
N'Gai seems to be the only one who comes prepared and provides direction to the the discussions, which I appreciate. He's also the ONLY one who actually argues with Shawn Elliott--something that NEVER happened on GFW radio. That alone makes him more valuable than Luke, the guy who never talks.
Furthermore: Twitter, you know. Digg. CNN. You know.
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@ JamesJ: Too Funny!
@ IdleIvey: I heard that too. What was that? Shawn pulls pranks, so I thought he was putting some porn on in the background.
@ N'Gai: LOL, y'know?
On boycotts: In general I think this is a good idea. Vote with your wallet. I buy Costco, b/c the CEO is extremely generous to his employees. I don't buy Walmart, b/c they treat their employees like crap.
In this case, it doesn't make much sense, though. OSC was only peripherally involved with the project. A better way to protest would be not to buy his novels or projects that he is more centrally involved or actually bear his name.
ON THE SHOW: Very enjoyable. Thanks! It's nice to listen to intelligent discussion about the game/entertainment industry. I know you guys do this in your free time, so really:
Thank You Very Much.
PS: Luke is the new Ryan Scott
@ IdleIvey: I heard that too. What was that? Shawn pulls pranks, so I thought he was putting some porn on in the background.
@ N'Gai: LOL, y'know?
On boycotts: In general I think this is a good idea. Vote with your wallet. I buy Costco, b/c the CEO is extremely generous to his employees. I don't buy Walmart, b/c they treat their employees like crap.
In this case, it doesn't make much sense, though. OSC was only peripherally involved with the project. A better way to protest would be not to buy his novels or projects that he is more centrally involved or actually bear his name.
ON THE SHOW: Very enjoyable. Thanks! It's nice to listen to intelligent discussion about the game/entertainment industry. I know you guys do this in your free time, so really:
Thank You Very Much.
PS: Luke is the new Ryan Scott
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